When Words Are All That’s Left After Suicide

Sometimes, life delivers blow after blow, leaving you gasping for air. Whether it’s the loss of a job, a home, or someone you love, grief can feel all-consuming—like joy may never return. For Betsy Stephenson, the heartbreak came in rapid succession. Within just six weeks, she lost her mother-in-law to dementia, her family dog to cancer, and—most devastating of all—her son to suicide. But instead of allowing the grief to swallow her whole, Betsy turned to writing.

Through raw, unfiltered reflections captured in real time, she began to process her pain and offer hope to others walking through similar darkness. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, Betsy shares her journey through unimaginable loss, the lessons she’s learned along the way, and what inspired her to publish her intimate memoir, Blackbird. Her story is both deeply emotional and quietly courageous—a reminder that even in the darkest skies, light still finds a way through.

If you liked this episode, listen to these episodes next:

• Broken Heart Syndrome: 4 Ways We Grieve
• A mother's grief journey and how it changed her life

The Emily’s Hope Substance Use Prevention Curriculum has been carefully designed to address growing concerns surrounding substance use and overdose in our communities. Our curriculum focuses on age-appropriate and evidence-based content that educates children about the risks of substance use while empowering them to make healthy choices. 

Transcript

Angela Kennecke: 0:07

Sometimes life feels unbearable, especially after a devastating loss. Whether it's a job, a home, or someone you love, it can seem impossible to imagine ever finding joy again. For Betsy Stevenson in six short weeks, she lost her mother-in-law to dementia her family, dog to cancer, and her son unexpectedly to suicide.

Betsy Stephenson: 0:31

we still have a hard time reconciling. The Charlie we knew with the way Charlie died

Angela Kennecke: 0:41

Instead of letting the grief consume her, she started writing raw, honest reflections, captured in real time with the hope that her story may help someone else navigating life after loss.

Betsy Stephenson: 0:54

when I decided to put my thoughts down, I thought, I'm gonna make this as concise and to the point as possible, and I'm gonna do it when it's happening to me in this moment. Not. Five years from now when I can reflect and find peace in all these lessons and have proof that I have survived. I mean, I wrote when I didn't know if I would survive.

Angela Kennecke: 1:22

In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, Betsy opens up about her devastating loss lessons learned along the way, and why she decided to share her thoughts with the public in her heartfelt memoir, Blackbird, her insights are both emotional and inspiring. I'm your host, Angela Kennecke let's begin this powerful conversation. In 2022, Betsy's son, Charlie was a junior in college earning good grades at as far as she knew, living a typical college life. But everything changed with a phone call she received from one of Charlie's best friends that April.

Betsy Stephenson: 2:05

Which is unusual. You know, kids these days do not call. It was a Saturday afternoon and said, Charlie knows that I'm calling you. But I want you to know that I had a conversation with him last night and he was talking about harming himself. And this is not typical talk or behavior for him. He was easygoing. he was. A jokester. He was social. He didn't play tricks like this, you know, So this friend took it very seriously, called us. We got him on the phone. He said he was fine. We didn't tell him that, that we knew. His sisters got him on and were talking to him and like, kind of distracting him and telling him stories and getting him to talk about, you know, just random things. And we called his roommates and said, Hey, can you look out, keep an eye out on him? And they said, yeah, we got it. And we said, be, be cool, you know, don't let him know we're scared. Just keep your eyes on him.

Angela Kennecke: 3:11

Meanwhile, Betsy wanted to see her son with her own eyes, so she caught the next flight and traveled overnight to Dallas-Fort Worth.

Betsy Stephenson: 3:21

And as I was at the airport, I said, I'm coming to see you. And he said, mom, I'm fine. I said, no, I just need to see you. Okay. I'm, I'm coming. It's done. No discussion. I'll see you in the morning. And I got there around seven I didn't know what I was gonna find. I mean, even though I had just spoken with him, I didn't know what I was gonna find it. up until that moment, it was a scariest moment in my life. And I, I got there and I got a hotel room across the street from his house and he met me in the lobby and he looked completely rung out. I. He was gaunt. His eyes were, you know, dark circles. He hadn't been eating. He looked exhausted. So he went to my room, he laid in the bed, fell asleep for hours. I slept on the sofa for hours'cause I'd been up all night. And when he woke up, it was after lunch. And I, I laid there with him and I, Put my arms around him. You know, moms of Grown boys don't get to Yeah. cuddle their sons that much. You know, he was sobbing, sobbing like a small child. And I said, what's causing all these tears? And he said, fear. And I said, what are you afraid of? And he said, it's just fear. And we started to talk and he did not tell me that he was thinking of killing himself. He just said he was really overwhelmed. He was unmotivated. It was hard for him to do anything. He was distracted. He was not happy with himself. and I asked him point blank. I said, have you thought of hurting yourself? And he said, no. And I said, have you thought of killing yourself? And he said, no. But I think he lied because that's what depression does to you. it lies to you about yourself. So then you lie about what's going on with yourself. And I think he thought he had it. I think he thought he could handle it, you know? I mean, we all wanna think that we can take care of ourselves. Right.

Angela Kennecke: 5:55

Were you. able to get him in to see anybody or get on medication or anything like

Betsy Stephenson: 5:59

So this was what was really interesting. I stayed with him for a week and he wanted to go to class. He talked to the office of Within Student Affairs that. Manages these things. They have great systems at TCU so that you can talk to your advisor and they will, they will let your professors know. So-and-so's not well, may not be able to go to class, may be late on assignments, whatever. He took care of all that himself, which is really astonishing. I, I actually would recommend as a parent, you step in and do those things for your child, but he did it. And while I was there he took a call from the campus Healthline. And I said, do you want me to leave the room while you have this conversation?'cause it's private. And he said, no, you can stay here. And while I listened to him talk. To a counselor, I learned that he had put himself in therapy the previous semester, put himself in therapy. What? 21-year-old boy puts himself in therapy in college and doesn't tell anybody and has no idea he was trying. As one of the nation's strongest financial organizations, first Premier Bank and Premier Bank Card have the strength to do good. We support nearly 700 organizations and nonprofits. Our employees give more than 30,000 volunteer hours annually, and we are continually seeking ways to make South Dakota an even better place to live. It's the premier way, first Premier Bank and Premier Bank card. I learned while he was on the phone that before I arrived, he had called the crisis line.

Angela Kennecke: 7:58

So he knew what to

Betsy Stephenson: 7:59

He knew, He knew, and they had had a. Conversation. It was like a triage and had determined that he was not an immediate risk. When he called the crisis line, I was on my way. He had friends around, whatever., but then this student counseling center helped him find another therapist, someone off campus, I offered to do all of this. For him or with him, and he said, no, he found someone right away. He started going right away. And when I talked to him about it, I said, okay you know, I'm gonna have to talk to you about this from time to time. I'm gonna have to check on you. I'm gonna have to ask. What's going on? And all I ask is that you're honest with me. Okay? you don't have to tell me about your therapy sessions. You don't have to tell me how your mood is going up and down, all that kinda stuff. I just ask you to be honest with me. And he said, I will. And he was an honest kid. He was, you know, I have three kids. They're all wired a little differently when it comes to the truth.

Angela Kennecke: 9:02

Yeah,

Betsy Stephenson: 9:03

This was not something I worried about with Charlie. And so, you know, and I said, and you have to promise me that if you're thinking of hurting yourself or killing yourself, that you will let someone know. You'll let me know. You'll let this friend know. You'll let that friend know. You'll let your therapist know. He said, I promise. I promise.

Angela Kennecke: 9:22

After a week of staying with her son, Betsy returned home. Charlie finished out the school year and the two saw each other frequently. In fact, every couple of weeks

Betsy Stephenson: 9:36

He was talking to us. He was coming home. We were together. Now, he didn't look good and he didn't sound good after I was down there. was evident that he was struggling, but when he came home. He would see his friends from high school. He would go hang out with friends. He went to a hockey game. he worked at a big event at his high school, and he saw all these teachers and faculty and coaches, I mean, he was out, he went out in Georgetown,

Angela Kennecke: 10:06

He was participating in life

Betsy Stephenson: 10:09

100%. he had a job. He was going to his job, he was making plans. I had bought him plane tickets to take a trip with one of his friends at the end of the summer., he had a job set up for the fall. Like we knew to really listen for this thing about the future and planning for the future. And he was telling us. Near term and long term. He was talking about grad school. He was talking about where he was gonna live when he graduated from college,

Angela Kennecke: 10:39

because of that, Betsy says she wasn't immediately alarmed when she couldn't get ahold of her son on July 10th.

Betsy Stephenson: 10:46

we didn't think it was because he killed himself. We thought it was because he was roaming around having fun in the summer, which is what college kids do.

Angela Kennecke: 10:58

Well, you wrote something that really stuck out to me and I'm gonna read it back to you for a second. You wrote, you can recognize you have a beautiful life and an unbearably hard life. You can give love freely and struggle receiving love. You can be playful and impish and be depressed. You can love and be loved and lose the will to live. I just thought. How can those things exist at the same time? Right. It's a dichotomy and what you're talking about, that's exactly what you're describing that he was doing and then just suddenly, I mean, he was, even the night that he died, he was interacting with people and took his life and no indication that he was going to do it at that time.

Betsy Stephenson: 11:48

the night before he died, he went out with this group of friends that he lived with and a bunch of people on his street it summer. A ball. I texted with him as I normally do, told him goodnight. Told him I loved him. He said he was doing great. Love you too. After they went out to bars, they went and they were hanging out in his house and they were playing cards and playing music and playing games, and it was the middle of the night and. By all accounts, he was not overly drunk or you know, I mean, he'd been drinking, but it wasn't like one of those kind of, oh yeah. You know, he had one of those nights he just regular, relaxed Charlie, and he was talking to a friend who lived across the street that he knew from high school and they were just friends. Nothing romantic. And she was having a hard time with some like girl drama, you know,'cause there's always girl drama. And he was kind of comforting her and he said, no matter what, just know that whatever you're feeling right now.'cause she was anxious about some things. Whatever you're feeling right now. It's gonna go away. It's not gonna last

Angela Kennecke: 13:14

And the fact that he said that to her, but he couldn't apply it to himself, right?

Betsy Stephenson: 13:19

hours. He killed himself.

Angela Kennecke: 13:23

Wow. Losing a child alone is difficult enough. But over the next few weeks, Betsy and her family were hit with loss after loss first her mother-in-law and then her family dog.

Betsy Stephenson: 13:39

the day I went back to work after Charlie died. I took a couple of weeks off. I was sitting in my first meeting. It was a Zoom meeting, but, I could barely keep it together. I was so proud of myself for like just even being upright and turning the computer on. And I get a call, it was my husband because his mother who had had dementia for a long time they said, you need to come right now. So my first day back after losing my son, I have to say, sorry, I'm gonna go be with my mother-in-law who's about to die., She died a couple days later, and then our dog, I mean our dog 10 years old, we knew she had cancer. We knew that it was terminal, but they were like, yeah, it could be a couple months. It could be a year. She seemed fine. She collapsed. We found her collapsed outside Charlie's bedroom door.

Angela Kennecke: 14:51

It is a lot to take.

Betsy Stephenson: 14:52

Well, you just feel like you're getting it from all sides. You're like, I can't, I can't even curl up with my dog, you know?

Angela Kennecke: 14:59

and So I think it's so hard for us to understand and all you want is answers, right? There's something else that you wrote. Suicide elicits, endless unanswerable questions. you go on to say, the sad reality is that neither heavenly enlightenment nor cosmic reckoning will bring back our Charlie. And I just thought, yeah, nothing is gonna bring him back. Even if you had all the answers, even if you could get in his head and you understand and you'll never understand. So living with the unknown, we, we do, if you think about it in life, we have to live a lot with the unknown. In so many things, right? We don't know what really happens after we die. I know what people wanna believe, but we don't really know we don't really know how, if there's a God, how God works, we don't really know why certain people do certain things. Why somebody commits a crime. Starts using drugs, complete suicide. Any of these things we don't know. We don't know what's going on in that person. We'll never know. And I have a hard time as a journalist and as somebody who's always looking for answers to lots and lots, I've always had a lot of questions my entire life, and I always want to find all the answers. And I think that if I just research it hard enough, if I talk to enough people, if I look hard enough, I will get the answer. But some questions are unanswerable and it's so hard to live with that. It is so hard to live with that and. I realized pretty early on that I had to make peace with not having the answers. and I will always struggle with that. I, you know, it's human nature to fight against it, , to want to know, I need an explanation. This affects me too. It's not just him. You know, what did I do or not do? and, yet the death of a child forces you to accept that not everything has an answer, no matter how hard they, how they die. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how they died., I read a blog once, like my child died too, but it wasn't from drugs. You know, I have people come up and tell me things like that. I'm like, I don't care. I don't care. It's the death of a child. I don't care if it was a car accident or suicide or cancer or fentanyl poisoning or an overdose or whatever it was. I don't care. The death of a child is the loss of a child and the loss of your hopes and dreams and the loss of. You know, this relationship that is like none other, and none of this other external stuff matters. You know, it's just so difficult for everyone we're left to try to think. I think a lot of times our brain, we wanna be in control and be powerful. So when you talk about what did I do or not do, like, somehow, whatever your actions are would have some sort of effect on the outcome. Because it sounds to me from what you're saying, you, you go down there, you spend a week with him, he's getting help on his own, you're making sure he is getting help. You know, you're seeing him all the time. He's telling you things that you want to hear. Right. Which we all do to people that we love.

Betsy Stephenson: 18:02

I think moms in particular we wanna be God-like with our children, you know, because. It's job number one to protect them. It's the first and only thing we really need to do and when they die, regardless of circumstance. But I think particularly for things like, you know, overdose, or suicide that are taboo

Angela Kennecke: 18:30

Stigmatized.

Betsy Stephenson: 18:31

Stigmatized. It feels convenient to be able to say, well, if I had done something, if I had made that call or listened a little differently or redirected that friendship or insisted on this, I mean, there's so many things, and yet it's weird because , I mean, I don't know how I would feel if I lost a child to cancer. I'm, there's a lot of obvious overlap, but there's a lot of important differences too. But I don't know if I had a child who was sick with a terminal disease and we threw ourselves at getting that child the best care. That we could find and the child still died. I don't know if my first point of recourse would be to blame the doctors. I mean, I'm not saying that stuff doesn't happen, but like, I don't think , I would do that. So why am I blaming myself for my child's mental illness? And the decisions that he made when he was very, very sick.

Angela Kennecke: 19:48

A disease of the body versus a disease of the brain. And this is a disease of the brain. Addiction, mental health. It's a disease of the brain. And we don't wanna accept, we wanna think we're always in control of our brain and we aren't just as, we aren't always in control of our body. Um, And some people more susceptible to it because of their genetics and all of these different things than others. So it is just unfortunate that , this is so culturally ingrained in us

Betsy Stephenson: 20:15

But it starts with us. you know, this is why what you're doing is so important. This is why I felt compelled to write our story, is if we have sat in this place and we have wrestled with these questions, and we have, I mean we've, had to create our own story, you know? This is what happened to me and my child and my family, you have to live with that for the rest of your life. And for me, it's changing and evolving and hopefully I'm growing and, getting stronger, but we can't expect other people to understand. Or empathize with what we're going through if we can't be honest with ourselves and be crystal clear about where we are and how we got there.

Angela Kennecke: 21:13

and that's probably why you wrote the book and I find it so interesting that we, our careers were kind of adjacent to one another. You know, I was journalist and working and telling other people's stories, and you were working in public relations and crisis communication. Nothing is more of a crisis than losing your own child. What in your training of your career helped you

Betsy Stephenson: 21:31

yeah, I mean, distinctly remember the day after he died and my daughters came in from out of town and my husband and my daughters and I are sitting there and said, you know, are we gonna. What are we gonna say? You know, we're, I have to write an obituary, right? What are we gonna say? And I went through the calculus in my mind of what I would coach people as a crisis person. Honesty, transparency, accountability. You have to start there ' cause otherwise. You're just building a house of lies, Right. This is too hard. All loss is hard. Even expected loss is hard, right? But sudden, shocking, unexpected loss of a young person. It's too hard. You can't make it harder by. Not being completely forthcoming about what happened because just on a very practical level. Who knows? Who doesn't know? Well, I think they might know 'cause their friends was so and so, but you know, this one can't ever find out because I don't wanna have that conversation. Like, why would you add that tension

Angela Kennecke: 22:54

Right. How do you manage it? right. And I agree with you, like as a reporter, accountability, honesty, transparency always so important to me. I didn't put in her obituary actually how she died.'cause my mind was just gone and couldn't believe I even wrote an obituary and. I even got up at the funeral and spoke, but I did say at the funeral how she died and then I took a few months off work. But when I went back I knew I had to tell the public, 'cause I didn't wanna be like walking through a store and have people over here whispering. Oh, did you hear how her daughter died? You know, I wanted to own it. Even if it was bad and it is bad, you know, it's horrible. And, and I knew that I would get a lot of pushback less pushback than I thought I got. You know, I always say probably 98% of people were incredibly even online and on, horrible social media. You know, people were incredibly kind. But even to this day, it's those one or two comments of people being horribly cruel. That stick with you, right? It's always the people who say the wrong things and the people who judge you and are awful that stick with you rather than the big majority of people that are just incredibly compassionate and kind. Actually,

Betsy Stephenson: 23:56

the worst thing that anyone said to me was, well, don't you wish someone could have done something?

Angela Kennecke: 24:03

no. I don't wish that at all. Geez. Well, what did you say? People just should say, I'm sorry. It's horrible. It's brutal. It's

Betsy Stephenson: 24:12

what? Yeah. So no, but I'm with you with, most people are amazing, even in their candor of just saying, I don't know what to say. That's okay with me. I, every, you know, everybody's different and I also wanna be very clear that I try very hard not to judge other parents and how they handle these situations because you literally. Come completely unglued. You are not yourself.

Angela Kennecke: 24:41

Mm-hmm.

Betsy Stephenson: 24:42

I do think a lot of people make decisions in the moment, particularly in early grief, that they just because they can't make any decisions. And I do think it was my background in the communications that help me, me see through that I knew I didn't want to make. My journey more complicated than it needed to be because I knew, and you know, as a reporter, you understand people have questions. Whether you wanna answer them or not is not the point. They have questions,

Angela Kennecke: 25:17

Yeah.

Betsy Stephenson: 25:18

so you might as well be the one telling the story.

Angela Kennecke: 25:22

Right. And that's what I used to tell people to get 'em to talk to me as a reporter. You know, people are gonna talk anyway. People are gonna be asking questions and you might as well own this and actually talk about it.'cause it's, about you or on you or something to do with you, right. So. Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. But also like this grief thing, you know,, we're so grief avoidant in this culture. And I actually went through David Kessler's grief educator training. So now I'm a grief educator. I run a support group. But I've said this and, , you've talked about it in your book too,'cause it's another thing that I noted. Why aren't we taught to cultivate grief, resilience? You know, we shouldn't have to wait until we've been shoved off the boat to learn to swim. And people used to mourn in different ways. You went on to talk about that and how isolated we feel and how scared we are to talk about the loved one or say their name or upset somebody. And I just think this whole way that we handle grief in this culture and with so many people dying, look at all the young people dying from suicide, overdose, fentanyl poisoning and other. I mean, we have death in our lives every day and it's. If nothing else, it's increased among young people, so why aren't we handling it in a different way? I wonder.

Betsy Stephenson: 26:42

I agree that It's doing no one any good that we aren't better at this. And unfortunately, I mean, death is a part of life. That means grief is a part of life. And I personally got very lucky because of my friend group, they swooped in. And literally kind of created a bubble around us and helped us manage, but also slowly infiltrate back into the real world. I had a lot of trouble. I didn't really do much for about a year. Very, very limited. Interactions with people or places and if it weren't for my friends who just showed up and just took care of things and took care of me and my family I'm not sure. We certainly, you and I wouldn't be talking. Now I promise you that.

Angela Kennecke: 27:47

I mean, it's great you had that supportive group around you, but I know not everybody gets that. And I know in my own case I have some really close friends that of course, have helped support me, but I did lose a certain group of friends when this happened because they didn't, I don't think they wanted to. I witnessed my grief.

Betsy Stephenson: 28:03

yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 28:04

It was too hard for them probably. I had a really supportive husband and then I had a lot of people whom I never expected support from to this day. I mean, just complete strangers sometimes will come alongside me and be some of the greatest support just in our efforts, you know, with the charity and everything else that we're doing. it's sometimes much more supportive than family or friends. So that always surprises me too. Some of the people you never would've expected, but. They're there.

Betsy Stephenson: 28:30

Yeah, no, it, it's true. And there are some people who went so above and beyond and they are in some cases, like you're describing people who are not people I see every day, They're not the inner circle of the friends. Maybe they were 20 years ago or 30 years ago, but those connections make a huge difference and I will always, I will forever cherish them for that. but it's interesting because even though I have benefited so much from this super supportive community I will be the first to admit, I don't know how to support someone grieving. I don't know that I'm very good at it. I can say read my book, but, we've had losses in our community since Charlie died, and I wish I were, I wish I were the way that others were for me, and maybe it's too soon.

Angela Kennecke: 29:32

It is probably too soon. I was gonna say, it brings up all that, like I remember shortly after Emily died, there was a young boy who knew the mother killed in a car crash and. Just going to that funeral, just seeing a young person in a coffin in the same room that my daughter had been in a c same funeral home. It was really hard, and I wanted to support this mother. I wanted to say I'm here. I I, lost a child too. I know what you're going through. I'm so sorry, but it was so hard. So I think that as time goes by, even though it will bring up emotions for you, they're not as sharp and as painful.

Betsy Stephenson: 30:08

Yeah. Are you passionate about keeping kids safe and informed? Emily's Hope is proud to introduce our K through five substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate young minds about the dangers of substance use. This engaging program lays the foundation for a healthy future. Visit emily's hope edu.org to learn more and help bring this vital resource to your local schools. Encourage your school administrators and counselors to explore our curriculum today. It's part of our mission. Together we =can make a difference.

Angela Kennecke: 30:51

While grief definitely isn't easy and can be extremely complicated, Betsy hope that by sharing her own journey, she could help others feel less alone. She poured her heart into a memoir called Blackbird, a title that carries a deeply personal meaning.

Betsy Stephenson: 31:09

So when I was growing up, my parents loved the Beatles, like a lot of people in the sixties and seventies. And my dad played guitar and I loved the song Blackbird, he would just strum away and he didn't ever sing it, but loved it. And so I associated that song with him and he died in 2009 unexpectedly. He had a heart attack. He was 65 and that really rocked me. That was my first big grief and. we gave my son Charlie, my father's guitar, and we told Charlie that if he wanted to take lessons, he could do whatever, you know, we'd pay for it. And when he got to high school, they had a great music program and he took every lesson that they offered. And by the time he was a senior, he was like teaching. He really took to it. And he always played my father's guitar. And when he was a sophomore. I said, if you wanna make me happy, learn to play the song Blackbird. And he's like, okay mom, yeah, whatever. And he comes home one day and he says, come out here, I wanna show you something. And he pulls out a chair and he sits on the back patio and he pulls out his guitar and he plays Blackbird. I have it on video. I. Hm. cried, I was so touched and it was just such a beautiful giving moment. You know, he was a very kind person. And from then on that was one of the songs and his repertoire. when he was home, he would play and his sister would sing it 'cause she has a beautiful singing voice. And so it was just kind of always in the air and. After he died, I always had the strong affiliation of that song, so this was kind of running through my, my head anyway. And we kept hearing about people getting tattoos to, I guess, recognize Charlie, Tim, his friends, and several people were getting blackbird tattoos and. I was like, how do they know this? And apparently he was playing it in the dorm. And he was playing it Whenever his friends would hang out, he would just sit there in the background and play Blackbird, just like my dad used to do in the house when I was growing up. So I think that's really sweet. And then I go and I look and I'm reading up on the song, Blackbird was recorded by the Beatles. On my first birthday in 1968 was my first birthday. Charlie was conceived on my birthday. The last time I saw Charlie alive was my birthday. So, of course I had to get a Blackbird tattoo.

Angela Kennecke: 34:11

so much significance and those dates. It's just strange, you

Betsy Stephenson: 34:16

Well, and the words to the song, you know, take these broken wings and fly. I mean, it is about release and freedom and hope and it's a sad song, but it's a hopeful song. Right. And it just fits the situation. And I'm not a tattoo person. And. for little southern sorority girl PR person to get a tattoo. But he's with me and I got it on my wrist so I can see it, you know,

, Angela Kennecke: 34:50

show it to me. Oh, yeah. It's cute. It looks like the book cover. Yes. I have Emily's signature from her Mother's Day card, and it's the only tattoo. I, I'm not a tattoo person either. Probably we're the same age and similar backgrounds and but that seemed appropriate and I knew I would never regret. Almost three years after her son died. Betsy says she's learned a lot about life through her grief journey.

Betsy Stephenson: 35:16

grief has taught me that only way to live your life is in absolute honesty with yourself, even about the hard stuff. Of course, I'll always have regrets. I know I didn't cause my son's death. Right? I know I probably could not have prevented it, but I'm the mom and I can't let myself off the hook. And so if you can't leave yourself off the hook. You have to just find a way to grow as honestly as possible within the life that you have. There are a lot of things I just don't care about anymore.

Angela Kennecke: 36:07

it puts things in perspective, doesn't it? Death puts life in perspective.

Betsy Stephenson: 36:12

I also, aside from, a little bit of fluttering, nothing makes me nervous.' cause I've been through it, what's gonna happen that's

Angela Kennecke: 36:23

Yeah, I know. I used to think, especially in the first few months after Emily died, like someone could come in and beat me and hold me hostage and rape me. I don't care. Nothing. Nobody could do anything to me that is worse than what has already happened to me. While Betsy says, not much makes her nervous anymore, grief can still feel incredibly lonely, especially when you haven't met many people who've lost a child. That's one of the big reasons she decided to write the book. She wanted others to know they're not alone, and that even in the darkest moments, there's still hope.

, Betsy Stephenson: 36:59

if reading a book of someone else's story can help, if there's something in there that speaks to someone and they say, oh, that happened to me too, or I didn't realize that other people had been through that, if that just gives them a peace even for a moment, then I think that's really important.

Angela Kennecke: 37:20

I think so too. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really

Betsy Stephenson: 37:24

Okay. Thank you.

Angela Kennecke: 37:27

Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Grieving Out Loud. You can find more details about Betsy's book in the show notes. And while you're there, we'd be so grateful if you took a moment to rate and review the episode and please share it with your friends and family who may find it helpful. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Marley Miller.